From Ruthless to Selfless: Jonathan Keyser’s Journey in Commercial Real Estate

[00:00:00] Welcome to the CRE Project Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into the world of commercial real estate. I'm Clayton King, your guide through the complex environment of commercial real estate. So, whether you're looking to invest, develop or simply understand how

[00:00:25] commercial real estate shapes our cities and economies, the CRE Project Podcast is your ultimate resource. Jonathan, thanks so much for joining me today on the CRE Project Podcast. Truly an honor to have a guy of your caliber on the show. So, thanks for taking the time.

[00:00:58] It is my honor. Glad to be here. You're obviously a very accomplished guy, really well-known speaker, have built an incredible company down in the Phoenix market. But take us back. Who was Jonathan before all of this and how did you get started in the commercial

[00:01:16] real estate industry? I appreciate the question. I had a very unique upbringing. I was actually raised a Christian missionary kid in Papua New Guinea, and my parents taught me to love and serve and give and help and all those good things. Then when we came back from overseas,

[00:01:32] I had the sudden awareness that we were broke and I was living in a trailer down by the wash and I looked in the mirror one day and I said, I don't like being broke. I'm going to be rich

[00:01:43] someday. And I didn't even know what that meant. Clayton, I didn't even have any context for that. I just knew that I wanted the stuff that all these other kids had. So, I went to UCLA, studied hard, sort of accidentally stumbled into commercial real estate because a buddy

[00:01:58] of mine said I could get rich doing it. And that was the right phraseology for me. And as I got in, I realized really quickly, wow, this is a really cutthroat, take no prisoner,

[00:02:13] sort of everyone for themselves industry. So, I'm like, all right, if that's the way it is, I guess that's what I need to do to be successful. At the time, I associated my parents' mindset

[00:02:25] of selflessness with living down by the river in the wash. So, I didn't want that for myself. So, I became this ruthless shark in commercial real estate and I was having some success, but I wasn't happy. I was misaligned with my core values, but I felt trapped because,

[00:02:43] again, I felt like my parents had it wrong. And then 20-something years ago, I went to a conference and this speaker, I don't know if other people got the

[00:02:52] same out of it that I did, but I was transfixed. And he was talking about a different way of doing business, a way of winning by helping others. I didn't use those exact terms, but that's what

[00:03:04] I heard. And so, I went up to him afterwards and I was like, hey, so tell me more about this. Is this just something clever you say to look good in front of an audience or do you actually

[00:03:14] do this? And if so, how does it work? Yeah. And he said, well, he goes, one, it's not a shtick. He said, and it works really well. And I just focused on trying to help as many

[00:03:26] people as possible. And I said, well, how does that really actually function then? Because, you know, my parents and they're broke and all that. And he said, well, think of it like planting seeds. He's like, we're farming. Right now you're hunting, John. You're trying to

[00:03:41] go out and get a piece of business. I'm talking about farming. I'm talking about helping the community as many people as you can over time. It comes back. And I said, well, if this is so

[00:03:52] great and so brilliant, how come this is the first time I've ever heard about it? He said, because it takes too long. And I said, well, how long is too long? He said,

[00:03:58] it'll take you about five years. And sure enough, I decided to reinvent myself and it took me five years. I went broke in the process. Everybody thought I was crazy. And all I really did was got involved in the community. I stopped co-calling. I stopped knocking on

[00:04:09] doors. I stopped pitching. I stopped selling. And I just started trying to help as many people as I can. And I would kind of get made fun of by other people. They'd say, like, oh, that's that free community concierge guy over there. Like any good criticism if you

[00:04:24] lean in, you turn it into a positive. So I started branding myself as a free community concierge. And I'd say, hey, whoever needs anything, let me know and I'll help you.

[00:04:32] Well, long story short, I started to come back and I went from kind of laughing stock at my old firm to top producer. But now I had a new problem, which was I had built such a philosophy

[00:04:45] and a team around this core ideology of just selfless service that it needed a life of its own. And in an epiphany moment, I realized that I had the ability to actually start a company that could transform an industry that really desperately needed it. In 2013 with a hope

[00:05:02] and a prayer and going all in, I started my own firm and we were focused just on representing the user of commercial real estate, which we can talk about more in a bit of why that's different. But it's been this just crazy amazing journey, Clayton, where we've won

[00:05:20] all these accolades and awards and ink and fastest growing and best places to work and all those things. I mean, USA Today names us the industry disruptor. So we had all these kind of crazy

[00:05:32] experiences. But at the end of the day, what we're up to is helping companies with their real estate. But really our mission is we want to show that in an industry known for being cutthroat,

[00:05:44] that we can actually be successful, not be trampled, but be successful by helping people, by doing the right thing, by taking the high road. And it's just been this extraordinary journey to go from everybody thinking I'm crazy to having the success that we now have. And today

[00:06:00] we're the largest firm of our kind in Arizona, one of the largest in the countries with our international partners. We have about 600 people around the world and we do work for some of the biggest companies in the world helping them with their real estate needs, office, industrial,

[00:06:12] healthcare and retail. And it's just a testament in my mind to this philosophy of giving and shall receive. Yeah, very, very cool. So I want to just kind of dive in to like talk to us a little

[00:06:27] bit more about how your model is different like specifically because it was interesting to me, obviously not cutthroat, talk about what you do differently in that regard. And then also from the procurement of business standpoint, so you mentioned you obviously don't do

[00:06:44] cold calling or you don't do. So I mean, that's again in the commercial real estate space, that's what you hear all the time from a lot of the other bigger brokerage firms. So

[00:06:53] explain that a little bit. I'm curious to learn more. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a place for cold calling. We just don't do it at our firm. I'm not necessarily against it. I just think it's highly inefficient. For us, everything is about trying to figure out

[00:07:09] how to help either the people that we want to do business with or the connectors that know the people we want to do business with and help them selflessly asking for nothing in return. But I think what really makes what we do different to answer that question directly,

[00:07:25] in commercial real estate, a lot of times when I speak and I give keynotes, I'll start with this, I'll tell everybody, I'll go, okay, picture in your mind the person that you love

[00:07:36] and trust most in the world. And so I go, everybody got it? Everybody got it? I'll go, now raise your hand if that's your commercial real estate broker. And everybody just cracks up because it's laughable. Why is it laughable? Because everybody sort of inherently recognizes

[00:07:52] that commercial real estate brokers are out for themselves. So for us, it's something that you almost have to experience to get. But there's nothing like working with someone who's truly 100% on your side. So I'll talk about that in one second, but that also really,

[00:08:09] really just cares about the best outcome for you. The old me, the old cutthroat me would try to talk people into whatever deal would make me the most commission, right? Whatever that was,

[00:08:20] that's what I told them was the best strategy for them, right? And now, which I find to be true in a lot of cases, I'm not saying everywhere, but that's a lot of cases, that's how brokers behave. So the big difference of Kaiser is we got your back,

[00:08:36] we're always on your side, we really, really care. Now let's look at this, the structural difference. So traditional commercial real estate firms, all the big acronyms that everybody knows, they primarily represent landlords, developers and real estate investors. They're all on the

[00:08:52] supply side of real estate. I only represent the demand, right? I'm always on the tenant or the user or the buyer or the seller, but always on behalf of the corporation or the company that

[00:09:04] needs this space to conduct business, but they're not in the real estate investment space. And the reason is because the amount of inherent conflict that occurs when you're trying to represent both sides of transactions, or even if the big firms are representing a tenant,

[00:09:22] they're trying to get these landlords as their clients if they're not their clients today. So they just can't negotiate with the same fervor as we can if they are trying to get business from these same people that they're negotiating against. So we just think, pick who you represent,

[00:09:40] pick your client for us. We just represent the tenant or the user and as a result, it gives us that ability. So we have that conflict free platform and then we bring this spirit of

[00:09:54] doing whatever it takes to help that individual selflessly and the kind of outcomes and the kind of relationships that we create are amazing. Clayton, like it's a whole different level of connectivity because it's not a transactional relationship. It's a true heartfelt partnership

[00:10:11] and that makes all the difference in the world. Yeah, I think it's funny because I tell a lot of my brokers, I think a lot of times people clients will appreciate you more if you actually

[00:10:22] tell them why they shouldn't do a deal versus trying to convince them or always agreeing with them on why they think they should do a deal because it shows you're not just in it for the fee

[00:10:33] and the commission. I always tell everyone either that I work with or people have heard me on this podcast several times, I mean we're in a relationship business and people can tell when you're being authentic versus when you're out for the fee and we all know

[00:10:49] brokers that are out there for the fee and they never really last long. They can have a nice little run but eventually it'll always catch up to them. So one of the things that I think is

[00:11:00] sort of interesting maybe is the word is that you have this whole industry where everybody's sort of is very like protect your relationship, they just sort of, for those who are listening on the radio, I'm just sort of closing my arms together

[00:11:17] showing kind of hoarding, everybody kind of does that with their information, with their you know how etc. Here I am on a podcast telling my secret sauce, why? Well number one because

[00:11:31] I want to change the industry so for me it's about all of us doing it together but here's the other reason this stuff that I'm doing, it can't be faked. It can be faked for

[00:11:41] a short period of time so what I'm inviting people to do is actually to transform themselves, right? Because if you transform yourself then you could be a selfless advocate then it's sustainable

[00:11:54] and then you're able to actually do this kind of work that I'm articulating in a way where either you don't want to jump off a cliff because you're just so fed up with all the stuff you're

[00:12:04] doing for other people or other people can get a sense if you're trying to do it and game the system they can get a sense that it's to your point your words used, used, used is

[00:12:14] inauthentic. If you're not doing it from a pure place and the only reason I could say it that clearly is because I tried doing it inauthentically like I tried gaming the system. I tried

[00:12:25] thinking okay well I know how the law of reciprocity works and if I give somebody something they're gonna want to give me something in return but the reality is is the hardest part

[00:12:33] about what I do is easy but it's also very hard and what's easy about it is it's not a complicated philosophy. It's not like oh wait Jonathan Kaiser is going to share something with us that we've never

[00:12:47] heard before help other people oh my gosh wow no it's not earth shattering at all but to have a business philosophy built around helping others and to be able to sustain that

[00:13:02] day after day week after week. I mean it's cute and fun the first three days right year 37 you probably have to be wired that way to get there right and I think that's the point. The

[00:13:15] point is that imagine the good that we could do there's plenty of business out there man I come from an abundance mindset not a scarcity mindset there's so much business out there to be gotten

[00:13:27] I'm not worried about competitors and I think that there is enough business for everyone and if everybody just stopped playing protectionism stopped being ruthless, stopped trying to shark their way to the top and if they just tried to figure out how they could collaborate work

[00:13:42] together and help other people I think they would be stunned at what they could accomplish. Now here's the rub the rub is this is the long game and not enough people I believe are willing to play the long game they want quick hits instant gratification quick commissions

[00:14:02] and therein lies the inherent challenge with this philosophy because very few people are going to be willing to actually put in the time put in the effort for a long enough time to see it actually work

[00:14:13] I have so many people that come up to me and go John and I tried your philosophy it doesn't work oh well tell me more about that well I mean I read your book and I did all the things

[00:14:22] and I said well tell me about that usually it turns out they tried for two to six weeks that's usually the and I said I told you there's going to take you five years you must have missed that

[00:14:33] part right like this is about long-term transformation not about short-term hits and so for those who really care about creating long-term sustainable success and having an enjoyable time doing it I think this is the best strategy ever but again you got to be willing to

[00:14:49] play the long game I always tell everyone in my company I said you know we need to focus on working for the review not for the fee as the business owner but even as a broker having a good review

[00:15:01] once the transaction is done to me is is priceless and it shows that you did a good job so we always try to focus on that you mentioned your principles what are the core principles that you kind of

[00:15:12] you personally follow well oh personally there's a company I would like to hear both maybe let me explain how I sort of look at things so one we don't have those typical seven words on a wall

[00:15:25] like most companies that start with usually integrity team work you know like all that bold nonsense um nobody even knows what they mean nobody does them anyways like that's just nonsense right and so I have 15 co-operating principles from my company oh wow that are three three lines each

[00:15:44] and that actually descriptively state what people can expect from us both internally and externally we use that for hiring we use that for uh client service we use that for termination we use it

[00:15:56] for everything it's like it's the it's due north for our organization let me give an example so here's our first one we serve our partners clients at each other fully selflessly completely and only involve ourselves in projects activities and conversations that can truly add value to

[00:16:11] another individual we are known by one word service and we live the statement it's not about me that's number one there's 14 more of them right and again every time we have like somebody

[00:16:21] executive coaches that are like hey dude that's way too many it's not digestible you gotta tone it down and it's like well that may be true for you but it's not true for us so that's kind

[00:16:30] of point number one point number two is on the personal side I believe in IM statements so I have created my own set of IM statements they're always iterative but it's where I describe who I

[00:16:42] want to be and what I want to be doing in the present and I've done that with my kids and I've done that with a lot of different of the individual Kaiser members and so it really is

[00:16:55] about declaring the future into existence in the presence through the power of your voice most people without realizing it spend their time saying negative things about themselves like I'm tired I don't feel good yeah I'm upset right and I don't speak to myself that way I feel

[00:17:13] myself with life through my speech and I find that to be highly useful uh in my personal and my business life yeah it's interesting I tell everyone especially when they're starting out in

[00:17:25] this business I was like the amount of emotional but mental strain that you will go through in the first year is probably unlike and harder than any other industry out there I mean it's

[00:17:39] incredibly difficult um there's this mindset that people like to say like oh you know brokers just make a lot of money and have it easy and it's like the journey to get there right like

[00:17:51] like it is a long painful path that it's easy to look like an overnight success when you've been in the business like me for 25 plus years right but there's a lot of years that we're in struggle

[00:18:02] so it is it is that sort of stick-to-it-ness that that I think defines successful real estate person and then if you layer on top of that this sort of selflessness that I'm

[00:18:14] describing I think it creates you know magic yeah yeah no totally with you well very cool man that's awesome I'd love to hear your background and kind of what you stand for that's great let's

[00:18:24] pivot a little bit let's actually talk about the trade a little bit kind of what you're experiencing right now so you're based in the the Phoenix market what's what's all around we do work everywhere we do okay yeah mostly across the the domestic us but we also

[00:18:40] do a lot in Canada and Mexico very cool what sector do you specifically specialize in that we do office as a firm we do office industrial health care and retail okay what's your take

[00:18:53] on the market right now tell us what you're kind of experiencing what you're hearing from your your clients and and where you think we're kind of going well I mean it depends on the sector

[00:19:02] right in office it's in a state of flux the older product has been hit hard by the post pandemic remote and hybrid work but we are seeing a dramatic resurgence of companies coming back

[00:19:16] to the office so that's that that's encouraging there on the within the office sector the trophy assets the nice spots the class a stuff that's going for higher rates across the country than it ever has and then the you know more struggling assets are really hurting and so

[00:19:36] you're seeing this sort of spread that in the past you haven't seen which is sort of the haves and have nots sort of the same thing in retail retail has been surprisingly resilient post pandemic

[00:19:50] and has actually grown and flourished but again it's like the older sort of second third generation stuff that's not nice a lot of that struggles but the trophy stuff flies off the it's crazy

[00:20:03] the kinds of rates that that we're seeing there health care growth industry just continues to grow that's that's that stayed strong and then industrial has been I mean that was the shining

[00:20:13] star for a long time where there was so much demand driven post pandemic or and even during the pandemic from all of the change in behavior that you see from the consumers and that has continued

[00:20:31] and then you layer on the top on top of that this near shoring and on shoring so we're seeing a lot of manufacturing come back to the US and Mexico and a lot of that is really driven industrial

[00:20:44] demand and then you have the semiconductor boom with the you know trying to avoid the risk geopolitically of getting cut out from advanced chips and so you know all of that has done

[00:20:58] wonders for industrial real estate and there's been a lot of construction to make up for the the demand and lack of supply a lot of that in some of the more active markets like Arizona and

[00:21:12] Dallas it's enabling a little bit more of a normalized market you know because we represent the tenant or the user for us it's been a real challenge not being able to find industrial space for our clients or having people have completely you know I've had clients where

[00:21:33] the renewal rate that they were proposed is four times what they're currently paying right it's just astronomically shifted so it's not softened necessarily but the as you know well the influx of supply adjusts that supply demand balance and enables a more normalized market

[00:21:52] and so you're seeing more of that in the industrial space but there's still plenty of markets where the construction boom didn't happen on industrial and and it's still tight industrial is experiencing a renaissance those I wish I had seen this coming and bought a huge industrial portfolio

[00:22:10] even four years ago I'd be sitting pretty yeah Albuquerque he's one of those markets we did not build and I think our vacancy rates like 2% on a good day in industrial it's incredible have you

[00:22:22] guys seen a lot of distress in the office market in Phoenix not really yeah and as I said haven't really you always hear about the issue to drop and the shoe quite you know all banks are

[00:22:34] doing the pretend and extend I mean there's like trillions of dollars lined up on the sidelines waiting to pounce for all these you know and you see the anomalies right you see that building

[00:22:43] in st. Louis that traded for I don't know 15 bucks a foot that sold a few years ago for 200 bucks a foot and you see a few of those things but I think on the whole there is pain coming

[00:22:55] I mean no question about it more and more leases continue to expire and a lot of companies down slides so there will be more pain but it's not going to be a bloodbath in my opinion I could be wrong

[00:23:05] I've been wrong before I just asked my wife she'll tell you how many times I've been wrong but I don't think it's going to be a bloodbath but there definitely is going to be probably

[00:23:14] a two to three year period of you know assets going underwater and then trading at discounts and you know new new owners coming in with a new basis and trying to attract tenants I think

[00:23:27] all of that is for sure I mean it's happening now and I think it's going to continue for the next two three years yeah what are you worried about right now in commercial real estate

[00:23:38] well one of my philosophies is I don't worry about anything so I'm not worried about anything but I was going to say that things that are worth kind of keeping an eye on I think that

[00:23:51] you know there's nothing new under the sun and people always don't see the cycles changing until it's too late and so I think there'll be some of that I think there'll be some people

[00:24:05] that didn't anticipate like they got in at a difficult time in the building they're not able to retent and I think that is that what we just thought we're talking about on the office side

[00:24:18] I mean I think that's the biggest thing that I see you know during the pandemic and afterwards we were constantly talking about what's going to be the way of work in the future is it going to be

[00:24:31] remote is it going to be hybrid is it everybody go back to the office eight to five money to Friday I think hybrid has proven that it is the winner I think most companies are doing three

[00:24:41] days a week in the office and then two days hybrid I think that probably becomes the idea that we're ever going to go back to uh you know Monday to Friday eight to five or else no chance

[00:24:57] right but I do see that a lot of organizations a lot of my clients most of my clients are not happy with what they're getting out of virtual and they're realizing that a lot of the productivity

[00:25:12] information that they reviewed over the past few years has been fundamentally flawed and is just plain wrong and people have been working multiple jobs and doing the bare minimum and so I think there's this yin and yang of the employees they've gotten comfortable right

[00:25:29] they don't want to go back to the office they're comfortable in their PJs and they don't want to have to drop their kids off at the you know at daycare and they don't you know

[00:25:38] they got their dog appointment at three that they got to make sure that they get and you know that kind of thing then you got the CEOs and the leaders that are saying no our organizations

[00:25:47] are suffering because of this so we need to get you back so a lot of it is by who's you know who needs who more in the cycle right dude who's who's on top from a leverage

[00:25:58] standpoint between employees and employers at any given time and I think that'll help define what's actually happening relative to the back of the work I think it's going to be a permanent struggle

[00:26:10] and I think that there will always be companies that insist that everybody has to be there and they'll lose people as a result and not care and then they'll always be people that insist they

[00:26:19] only will work from home and and they'll lose opportunities and they won't care and then most people will be in the middle yeah I think it was interesting we uh on a previous show that

[00:26:29] we had we talked about this and the guest talked about one of his clients actually making work from home an incentive based reward if you will so if you meet a certain metric then you can work from

[00:26:40] home and I really found that interesting and I can see that being a true model because it's all about performance so if you perform and you're working from home fine you know it's

[00:26:50] like you said when people are wanting to work from home but they aren't you know yielding any positive result from it that's when you really have this this rub but I'm I'm with you I mean my

[00:27:01] I have a two-year-old at home and my wife works remote in a job that she used to and I mean we talk about all the time how nice it is that she's able to do certain things now because

[00:27:13] she's you know able to work from home so it's definitely an interesting dynamic that's and you know entered the world I was speaking on a panel last week and everyone was like well

[00:27:23] what's going on with retail I said well and all things considered I mean it's kind of nice being in retail I was like you know for the last seven to ten years you know I've kind of had vultures

[00:27:30] circling over my head saying that I'm you know the the industry is gonna die and yeah right I said some somehow these vultures have now found their way over to office so now now they're just talking about office never just circling there yes that's funny that's

[00:27:45] so true yeah so yeah it's an interesting moving trend and I'm kind of with you I think the hybrid model seems to be kind of the proven model thus far what are your thoughts on interest rates and

[00:27:57] kind of just the economy in general I mean I think everybody's been surprised at how resilient the US economy has been with interest rate hikes as aggressively as they've been hiked and you know especially in commercial real estate as you know well playing

[00:28:15] the market priced at least three if not four bumps down right this year and now it's saying well maybe that's not actually gonna happen so I think that economically the story underneath the story

[00:28:32] is all the onshoring of all of this stuff that we've been offshoring for so many years bringing these jobs back is having a impact on the US market bigger than maybe a lot of people

[00:28:49] anticipated and the cool thing is is it's both Republican and Democratic leadership you know administrations have focused on this and so I think that I think it's a sustainable trend

[00:29:04] and I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna help mitigate some of the dramatic swings and I think that's part of the untold story of what's offsetting a lot of this what otherwise would be recessionary

[00:29:19] indicators is this just wave of I mean I cannot just here in Arizona the amount of semiconductor work that I'm doing the amount of companies that are looking to and they're coming from everywhere I was on a phone call with a client out of Switzerland this morning and

[00:29:35] they're bringing it here you know so it's just all of that growth is having a compounding effect I'm not an economist I have a really good capital markets guy and you know we've both

[00:29:46] been surprised by the continued strength of the economy and it'll be interesting to see how it unfolds I don't see any pending crash or have any kind of you know I think could there

[00:29:58] be some additional slowdown sure but I don't see anything that's that's got me you know it's not nothing's keeping me up at night I just love to hear a little bit more on that like why do you

[00:30:07] not think there's going to be a crash in real estate or just economically I would say I mean I think one fuels the other but I mean just I would say let's keep it to real estate why won't

[00:30:20] there be no I just think there's way too much money that's waiting right so yeah I agree stuff's not just gonna sit around and rot I mean there'll be plenty of people that have to take

[00:30:31] some pain without a question but the other thing that's different you know everybody always compares this to the Great Recession the other thing that's different is you know well is that lending rules have really tightened since then and so there's a lot more equity in the assets

[00:30:46] today than there were back then you know you don't have people working at Starbucks you know flipping homes and buying 10 at a time like you just that you can't do that and I've

[00:30:56] got a new home two years ago I couldn't believe the the hoops that I had to jump through like it was brutal I got house right so I think that that has been good for the market and I think that'll help

[00:31:09] underpin and support despite the pain that is inevitable in our space yeah I agree with you I always tell everyone that too as like the amount of equity that everyone has right now versus obviously going through the Great Recession is kind of the big differentiator so yeah that's

[00:31:29] kind of interesting I just wanted to kind of get your take on that are you working on any cool projects right now tell us about some cool projects you may be working on we're working

[00:31:36] on a ton of cool projects and I'm under NDA with nearly all of them but I can tell you at a high level we're doing massive projects on clean energy interesting if you look at the biggest

[00:31:49] risk factor that we have as a country it used to be water that was the concern today it's power all of this technology that we are you know continuing to build from AI to self-driving cars to

[00:32:04] all of that stuff requires an inordinate amount of power and so I have you know Arizona has kind of become a hub for clean energy so we're working on some really let me let me give

[00:32:15] an example of one that I can talk about that's really interesting it's energy where you take because the hardest part about solar energy is storage it's hard to store energy so the concept

[00:32:27] of one group that I'm working with is you take this massive multi-ton boulder and you build basically like a ski lift up a mountain so during the day the sun powers the inching of this massive

[00:32:45] weight up the ski lift during the day and when the sun goes down it drags down and creates energy for everyone at night so that's just one of a hundred crazy cool kinds of innovations we're doing

[00:32:59] a ton in the semiconductor space I mean they're bringing you know TSMC is bringing the number one chip in the world production is going to be out of Arizona which is just wild to think about

[00:33:11] so tons on that tons on taking former cool plants cool areas and turning them into renewable energy mechas it's a cool time to be alive and it's a cool time to be in our business because there's

[00:33:27] so much interesting stuff happening yeah I know clean energy is a big part of our future whether you like it or not no doubt man so let's pivot a little bit I want to move kind of into a different

[00:33:44] segment that's called three two one so I want to kind of share with you or have you share with us you know three books or classes or podcasts that you feel have kind of significantly helped you

[00:33:56] in the commercial real estate space and your journey along the way that's easy because I'm avid reader the story of you by Steve Chandler is one of the best books I've ever read it's no longer

[00:34:08] in print I bought up all the used versions and I give them out a lot oh cool and basically just talks about how you you know what you believe about yourself has been sort of accidental based

[00:34:20] upon your upbringing and what people said to you and so that you can kind of take control of that and create your own story so that's that's an amazing book that I have learned a lot from

[00:34:29] Never Eat Alone is another one that really has impacted my business and then The Way of Mastery you want to dive deep into self-development big blue book called The Way of Mastery Hardcover

[00:34:42] that is the most profound book I've ever read and I read it a lot but I'm a massive reader I love I love self-development my whole life I've filled my head with the wisdom of others so I

[00:34:53] hopefully make less mistakes along the way and I've had some amazing coaches right like unbelievable people that have mentored me there was a guy in LA that you know when I was a young buck

[00:35:06] up and coming at at a prior firm really took me under his wing invested his time and energy and me and his name is Jerry Porter and he's someone that I'm you know forever grateful to and

[00:35:18] there's a guy out of San Diego named Dave Marino who helped me with this kind of methodology that I now utilize and I've had two amazing coaches actually hired Steve Chandler after I read that book

[00:35:33] he coached me and then Steve Hardison has been another extraordinary coach in my life so I feel like I'm standing on the shoulders of giants right and I'm just barely scratching the surface I can

[00:35:42] name so many people from my parents to you know go down the list they're there they're endless of people I'm just an amalgamation of so many people helping me so my goal is to try to

[00:35:54] give back as much as possible what do you say I'm curious to the people that are skeptical about coaching I mean and specifically it seems to be an issue with people in commercial real estate

[00:36:04] it kind of makes me I think it's fair because I think there's a lot of shitty coaches out there yes so you know especially in today's world you never know everybody's a life you can't

[00:36:15] figure it out on your own you can't make money elsewhere become a life coach it's like yeah right so like I grew up playing basketball right so the difference between me playing as a 49

[00:36:24] year old basketball on a court hopefully I don't blow my knee out but the difference between me and LeBron James it's two different levels right like it's not even you can't even compare them but you

[00:36:33] could call us both basketball players because we both are but there's no comparison so I think that's the thing I think you have to find the superstars you have to find the ones that are

[00:36:43] that have proven based on their own track record they know what the hell they're talking about they know what they're doing again I've been fortunate to have extraordinarily talented and successful mentors and I think that you know most of us in commercial or whatever kind of industry

[00:37:00] we're in we're quick on our feet and we're good on our toes and we could probably outmaneuver most life coaches anyways right you got to find someone who could actually pin you down cut you open

[00:37:11] open you up find the crap deal with it help you fix it and then you flourish right and that's that's hard so then there's the third one and this is the real reason so all that stuff is

[00:37:21] more excuses but it's all valid but the real reason is because at the end of the day people don't really want to change Clayton they don't want to change for a coach to have success with you

[00:37:31] you've got to be willing to look within and say what's ugly what sucks what do I need to do to fix I believe that I am merely the product of endless reinventions where my job with my coach

[00:37:46] every week was to sit down and have him find more shit within me that sucked that I needed to fix and I called that my drug of choice you know it's like my drug of choice is figuring out something

[00:37:58] where it's embarrassing that I didn't see that before and holy crap I'm so grateful I see that now and now I gotta go fix that and and upgrade so sort of like I look at myself as a constant

[00:38:10] upgrade opportunity and every time I upgrade everything that comes out of me is better and I have more success so again the path is a challenge right it sounds easy right go help people and work

[00:38:23] on yourself that's basically you can summarize my message right well then you actually have to do it and to do it is really hard requires selflessness requires you being willing to stare in the mirror and actually see your flaws for what they are and then lean into that

[00:38:39] and figure out how to upgrade yourself most people have no interest right so that that would be my long-winded answer yeah it's always the achilles heel to every human is consistency and like you

[00:38:50] said getting out there and actually doing it is the hardest part for a lot of people it's interesting just hearing an accomplished guy like you you're still getting coached so that's why I asked the question on why you pursue that and the success that you've seen behind it

[00:39:05] because it seems like so many people in our business are so egotistical in a sense and hey I already know it all I don't need anyone to really help me and like you said I don't really have any

[00:39:15] shit inside of me it's kind of interesting and it's accountability too right like at a minimum they're holding you accountable to what you say you're going to do so that in and of itself

[00:39:27] is valuable yeah yeah no doubt and then what about just one piece of advice that you would give let's let's actually do it this way let's do one piece of advice that you'd give someone starting

[00:39:38] in the industry and then one piece of advice for someone that has been in the industry for a while sure so if you're starting outwork everyone pick a course and stick to it and constantly

[00:39:51] focus on personal growth you've been in the industry a long time I would say look at what you're doing a value have somebody help you because you're too close to it evaluate where the flaws are in your current strategy and make changes to upgrade your approach and and

[00:40:15] work on yourself significantly so that you can improve the output of everything that that you do that is so critical I can't overemphasize it is like the end of the day what people experience is you

[00:40:33] and if you are a fundamentally flawed human being as we all are the less flawed you get the more people like you the more people want to work with you the more people trust you

[00:40:42] and the better of a person you become which makes your life experience better as well I mean that's the thing that that sometimes gets lost in all this conversation because I really want

[00:40:51] people to focus on hey if you do the right thing and take care of people you can have success but the other part of that is I just feel good doing it right it just feels good to help people

[00:41:02] and not be you know trying to screw people and take for yourself all the time like that's just an ugly sort of low vibration way to live like that it's just not fun it's not enjoyable it

[00:41:15] sucks right so even if you have money you look yourself in the mirror and you're sort of like yeah but yeah right I personally really appreciate the methodology that I sort of accidentally stumbled

[00:41:29] into because I feel like I have a very very rich and fulfilled life with meaningful relationships and I have success as well I think you can have your cake and eat it too and that's my whole

[00:41:40] mission is to help people see it very cool man well this has been great if if someone wants to get in contact with you what's the best way to reach out to you Kaiser.com my book's available on

[00:41:52] on Amazon you don't have to be ruthless to win which I think is a pretty good title right there again they said way too long it's got to be one word I said no the title is you don't have to be ruthless

[00:42:02] to win Kaiser.com. K-E-Y-S-E-R.com and I really appreciate you having me on yeah man thanks for being here thank you for joining me on this episode of the commercial real estate podcast I hope you found today's conversation with our guest both insightful and inspiring if you have

[00:42:19] any questions or comments or would like to connect with me or our guest you can find all the relevant information and links in the show notes I encourage you to reach out share your thoughts and continue the dialogue don't forget to subscribe to the podcast to stay updated

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[00:42:50] and improve before we part ways remember this in the dynamic world of commercial real estate every experience is an opportunity to learn and grow so keep pursuing your passions stay curious and continue your journey thanks for being a part of our podcast community I'll

[00:43:07] be back soon with captivating stories expert insights and valuable knowledge to empower your path in the realm of commercial real estate until next time always keep in mind that the world of commercial real estate is filled with endless possibilities keep building keep investing and keep dreaming big