The Power of Pivoting: Joe’s Lessons from Bars, Real Estate, and Self-Storage

[00:00:08] Welcome to the CRE Project Podcast, the show where we take a deep dive into the world of commercial real estate. I'm Clayton King, your guide through the complex environment of commercial real estate. So, whether you're looking to invest, develop, or simply understand how commercial real estate shapes our cities and economies, the CRE Project Podcast is your ultimate resource.

[00:00:48] Jo is an experienced entrepreneur with a knack for spotting unique investment opportunities, especially in the self-storage space. Today, we'll dive into how self-storage can be a high yield investment, explore the Bell Rose Group's innovative approach, and learn how they empower investors to transition into ownership. So, Jo, it's great to have you here. Thanks for jumping on the CRE Project Podcast. Clayton, it's a pleasure to be here. I appreciate it.

[00:01:17] Yeah, and it's funny. We were talking offline. This is going to be a fun show for me personally, but also for the audience, just because we've had a lot of multifamily people on the show. We've had a lot of retail folks on the show, brokers, but we haven't had a ton of self-storage guests on the show. So, excited to learn more about the self-storage space. So, really quick, kind of give us a background on who you are and how you got to where you're at today.

[00:01:47] I probably definitely realized it later in my journey, but I've kind of always been an entrepreneur at heart, even though I didn't start out that way. And when I had the opportunity, I was a financial advisor in my 20s and maybe in my 30s, right around 30. And, you know, I had an opportunity to buy a bar that I had bartended at. So, I was always a worker. Like, I was one of those just hungry dogs out there doing what it took. Always wanted to get into real estate, but wasn't there yet.

[00:02:16] I was a financial advisor, bartending two nights a week, and then have this opportunity to buy a bar. And I did not like being a financial advisor anymore. I'll skip that part of the story. I did what any young 30-ish man would do and leaped at the opportunity to own his own bar and restaurant because that's what we are born to do, right? Clayton, you look like a guy. If you haven't, probably. Sounds like a blast to me, man. Right. It is anything but. It is a lot of work.

[00:02:42] It's the most I ever worked for the least I ever made. It was, you know, 100-hour weeks, miserable. And, you know, ultimately, I wasn't successful at the restaurant part. I was great at the bar part, but the restaurant part is what, you know, took us under. So, it was an amazing – I often reach back to that experience because that was my first real – I guess my first real experience at failure and failure that costs money, right? So, it truly was an education.

[00:03:10] After that, I had to reinvent, got another job selling radio, talk radio. If you remember Billy Crystal and Sidney Slickers, remember the movie? He's like, I said, oh, yeah. Totally. That's what I was doing. And one of my clients was a – it was called Real Estate Riches. And they were – I'm outside of Philadelphia. So, they were a Philadelphia-based real estate mentorship group, right? They were teaching people how to buy, rehab, and flip houses or rent houses and that sort of thing. So, they were advertising that on the radio.

[00:03:38] So, I ended up learning how to do that while they were my client, which was great for me because I was getting paid to learn how to get into real estate. And so, I started to go through that journey and added that as if I had more time between working full-time, bartending still two nights a week. Wow. And then adding – looking for houses on the weekend. I think I was single then. And so, I was – started what I call the real estate progression, probably not unlike a lot of people did, which is wholesaling some houses because they didn't have a lot of money.

[00:04:07] And then bought some with partners and rented them and then moved into rehabbing and flipping. And then in that process, I had another client who was selling condos. Long story short, I ended up networking my way to a 1031 exchange company. And what they were doing is they were buying $28, $30 million multifamily and office buildings. And we were raising the equity as 1031 exchange syndications.

[00:04:35] So, I became the national sales director and raised like, I don't know, $90 million over a couple of years. And this was back in 2004, 5, 6, 7. And then you know what happened in 2008 and 9, right? Yeah. After the credit markets hemorrhaged and ultimately the real estate market collapsed, the 1031 exchange business kind of went poof. Yeah. I was reinventing again. And this is – whether I realized it or not, I was learning I was an entrepreneur because I had to keep reinventing myself.

[00:05:05] And anyway, went to a tax lien seminar where I met who ultimately became a partner of mine. And we started buying not tax liens but distressed debt, charged off residential second mortgages. Because people thought we were crazy. Probably pretty good at that time, right? There was a lot of it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good time to start to learn that business because there was a lot of it. We still own a company that buys it, by the way. But that's just kind of like a hobby to me. The side business is a better way to say it.

[00:05:30] And we launched a business doing that very successfully but then had to reinvent again after a couple of years because the CFPB, when that was created, made it onerous for banks to sell that debt. So, basically, it made it not worth it. So, we went through three years of not being able to buy any distressed debt. So, the business we had just built didn't completely go under but we had to let people go. And then we had to find something else.

[00:05:59] Because you're in that alternative investment world, probably not unlike you are now because especially with all the different people you're talking to, you end up on different email lists. And I got an email about self-storage. This was probably 2016-ish. Clayton, I didn't know the first thing about self-storage. I have a house that has an attic, a basement, and a garage. You didn't even have to rent one. If we need self-storage, we've got a problem. We've got a hoarding problem. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. And if you're a self-storage renter, I'm not pointing my finger at you.

[00:06:29] We love you. Oh, I am. Trust me. So, pay it every month, man. Me personally, we just, we didn't, you know, to me it was. So, my point is I never had any interest for a knowledge of self-storage, including all the commercial real estate conferences I went to. There was never a self-storage operator there. I didn't know what it was. Yeah. If I'm completely truthful, eight, nine years ago. But I'd raised a lot of money for multifamily, office, and actually hotel.

[00:06:56] So, I had some working knowledge of those asset classes. And here was this email talking about, you know, the traditional tagline, which isn't really true, is no toilets, no tenants, no trash. I said it's not true because you have tenants and sometimes they leave trash. But it's not true in the sense of you're not a landlord, right? So, the landlord laws aren't working against you. We're actually more like custodial. We don't even take baili. We don't take custodians. So, we just provide space.

[00:07:25] We're not even allowed in your space and self-storage, right? You lock it yourself, your unit. What attracted me to the space was the same thing that attracted me to Distress Debt. I know I didn't really get into that, but that was the fragmented, dislocated market, if you will. And the buzzwords that caught my attention weren't the toilets, tenants, and trash. It was the fact that 75% at the time, and it depends on what you read, but still north of 70%. So, I'll use that number.

[00:07:55] 70% today of self-storage facilities in the United States are owned by mom and pop. Not by public, not by extra space, not by CubeSmart, being three names that sure all of your listeners recognize, right? I never would have guessed that. I would have thought they own 70% of the industry. They do not. They own less than 20%, actually. The delta in between are kind of your mid-regional operators that own five or more facilities.

[00:08:23] To me, I looked at that and was like, that's interesting. And that was the same kind of thing I saw in Distress Debt. It was completely dislocated, fragmented market. People thought we were nuts. So, that's to me as a niche. I'm curious by nature. I love looking into what others are telling me I'm crazy to look into. That doesn't mean I'm always right, but I'm curious, and I want to learn more. So, I started to learn more, and I went to – there's a guy named Scott Myers who runs an educational program.

[00:08:53] And so, I started – he was the one that sent the email. I don't know how he got my email, but he got it, and his marketing worked. There you go. So, I started to look into that. I went to one of his – I think I bought – actually, I think I bought like an at-home course, and it probably came with CDs. This is how long ago we're talking about. And which – I don't even think I had a computer that took a CD at the time, or DVD, or whatever it was. I bought that course, and the more I learned, the more interested I was.

[00:09:19] And the other thing, knowing – having raised money for multifamily I thought was interesting, and hotels. Hotels you manage by the night. It's a nightly contract. Multifamily is an annual lease. Storage is monthly. And I thought that was really interesting how you could manage that business because, you know, every business is cyclical in natures of it even within a year. I just thought that was really fascinating that you could manage this business by the month. It wasn't so intensive like a hotel, and it wasn't – you know, you weren't trapped in a contract for a year like a presidential lease.

[00:09:49] That's what attracted me to it, and that's how I ended up here. Very interesting. One question, just taking a quick step back before we dive in, I wanted to ask just from your background, if there is someone out there that's in a similar situation that you were in where, hey, I'm operating a small business, a bar in your case, right? And I'm feeling tired. I'm feeling like the wheels are falling off the wagon type of thing.

[00:10:13] Would you recommend the same path that you took as far as going into wholesaling first, or what are kind of your thoughts on that? That's a great question. Look, I can't not recommend it because it got me to where I was. I think that's one path that anyone can take, and there's nothing wrong with it in the real estate, you know, progression. And I say progression because, you know, some people start there and end up, you know, maybe where you are, right?

[00:10:37] Buying retail or buying multifamily or, you know, larger – you know, you buy one and then you get the 10 because you think that's the goal. And some people go further than that, and then some people realize, hey, this is a lot of work for – you know, I'd rather – I'm better off to buy duplex, triplex. And then they progress to, well, let's buy more commercial where it's, you know, five units or more, right? Right. That's a perfectly normal progression in the residential side or you – I don't know.

[00:11:03] I'd love to hear your path someday, but how you end up in retail, you know, and some people end up going a different way. There is a path directly to self-storage, and I can share that with you, but there's nothing wrong with doing it the other way, I don't think. I mean, it's just whatever you're able to do at the time, right? Yeah, and, you know, we've had this conversation with other guests on the show before. You know, the most important thing is just start, right? Yeah. It's funny because, you know, some people come from a financial background.

[00:11:32] You know, you're obviously an entrepreneur. Real estate's a very entrepreneurial type of industry, right? So I think you benefited from that. But a lot of people start as brokers, and that seems like a very traditional path. We've had a lot of people that just kind of started, you know, kind of cold turkey. And then, you know, obviously you kind of went in through the wholesale side of the business. So there's so many paths, and I'm just – I'm curious, yeah. And the reason I asked that question is I've always wondered if, you know, you ever thought back and said, well, maybe that wasn't the best strategic path.

[00:12:02] Like, it worked out, but maybe that wasn't the best path. So that's why I wanted to ask that question. Look, it got me to where I am, so it's hard to say it's not. Now, if you're asking me, is there a shortcut? Sure. Knowing what I know today, what I've gone directly into self-storage, as long as, you know, we're not – you know, it's not like a back to the future scenario where I changed some of my history and it's affected what I'm today or, you know, my kids or whatever.

[00:12:28] But, yeah, there is a more direct path that I think as we learn more in self-storage – look, this was like a hidden asset class for years. I didn't know anything about it. But so as people are learning more about it and, you know, people like me are on podcasts like this and, you know, the information is being disseminated, you know, there's other self-storage specific podcasts. There's education. There's masterminds. There's academy.

[00:12:52] You know, there's more today than I had at the time I got into real estate available, right? So there is a more direct path, I think, for sure. We even help people with that, you know, with consulting. You know, I don't know if I want to get ahead of myself here, but, yeah, sure. Knowing what I know today, would I have taken a different route if it presented itself? Yeah. And I would own more facilities than I do today. Yeah. I would have – like you said, the important thing is to get started. And when people ask me, do I have any regrets?

[00:13:21] I say, yeah, I wish I got started in self-storage sooner. Yep. Or real estate sooner. And, you know, I turn 21 instead of 31 type of thing, right? Yep, totally. We could all say that. We can all say that. That's for sure. So, well, cool. I appreciate your insight on that. So, yeah, I mean, going into self-storage, tell us what are you focused on today? Are you buying existing facilities and adding value? Are you doing ground-up facilities? What is Bellrose kind of focused on right now? Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:13:49] So we have three primary areas of focus. Our core business is we buy – we look for and buy mom-and-pop run-and-own self-storage facilities where we believe we can add value, right? That we're – you know, it's an existing operation. And, you know, there's a number of different things we look at to say, hey, is this a facility we want to buy? Is this a place where we want to be? And can we add value? Because we're not doing it just with our money, but we're using investors' money, right? So we raise money from investors for every deal.

[00:14:18] So we need to provide them a return, right? A healthy return. So that's one core business that we have. So when you say you're buying mom-and-pop facilities and you're looking for value-add component, what specifically are you looking for? Where can you add a ton of value with a mom-and-pop operation when it comes to a storage facility? Sure. It's typically all in the management. And that's kind of a broad term.

[00:14:45] But to give you an example, you know, you can buy multifamily and take it from a class C to a class B, right? By – if there's still Formica countertops left, I don't know anymore. But you know what I mean. You could go in and rehab kitchens and bathrooms and make them pretty, maybe add a community center, a pool, stuff like that. And you can take it from a C to a B or I don't know if you can get it to an A. But you're adding physical value that any investor or you yourself can see the difference before and after pictures.

[00:15:14] Sometimes we can add physical, visible value to facilities. Certainly we do that. If it's not gated, we'll gate it. You know, so that's security and protection, right? If there aren't bollards on the corners, which again, nobody but us cares about because it's not improving your storing your stuff there. What would make you feel better as a customer or an investor is, you know, security cameras, lighting. It's all security stuff.

[00:15:41] The physical stuff is security, not even so much beautification. A lot of times people think we buy a gravel facility and pave the lot. No, we rarely ever do. And the reason for that is, is there a return on that investment? If we're in a community where they're all gravel or it's full and it's gravel and it's been that way for a long time, we're just spending money to spend money. So there's typically not a lot of value we're adding physically unless it's from a security

[00:16:09] standpoint or ease of access, right? Maybe it's not an automatic gate and we put it on a maticated. Typically, the value we're adding isn't so much for the customer as much as it is for the investor. So what do I mean by that? A mom and pop facility, typically, I'll give you like the cookie cutter, what I love to find, like my creme de la creme deal. It's when I'm talking to the seller, I hear things like, hey, we're always full. We're the lowest rates in town.

[00:16:39] Our customers love us. I can't find a website or if I can, it's from the MySpace era. They have either no signage or confusing signage on the property. How they manage the facility. I've walked into facilities that are managed in a notebook, Excel spreadsheets, loosely, you know, no management. Oh, actually, one was a board that was all magic marker.

[00:17:08] God forbid somebody accidentally brushes up against it and you lost half your intelligence of your management. So when, oh, and then talking to the seller, we have, you know, we're 100% full. There's always a church that has three or four units that they don't pay for. The family members always have four or five units that nobody pays for.

[00:17:35] Or there's typically five to 10 units that the springs on the doors or the doors need to be replaced. The springs are broken. So they're not rented. And then there's always, you know, five to 10 customers that have been there forever, but they haven't paid in six months to two years, but don't worry, they're good for it. So there's from a revenue perspective without even raising rates and raising rates is a big component. We're looking for 15 to 20% below market without even raising rates.

[00:18:04] There's typically value we can add just by going in and operating it better. But when we're done with it, church is a little of a stickier situation, but sometimes we let that, you know, you got a lot of parishioners that are customers. You got to play that a little, but when we're done with it, after we take it over, you can find the facility from your cell phone, right?

[00:18:32] Now remember, this is a facility that didn't have a website or it's a worthless website. You can find it from your cell phone. You can rent a unit from your cell phone. You can pay for it from your cell phone. And we can hit you with, as part of renting the unit, insurance on your unit, all from your cell phone, right? And in the future, it doesn't pencil to retrofit, but I'm just, since I'm on the technology angle, in the future, when they're building these now, you'll access the front gate from

[00:19:00] your cell phone and your unit from your cell phone. The locks, you're not building them anymore where you're putting locks on. If you are, you're building to old specs. So, and again, it doesn't make sense to retrofit the old ones at this point until the cost of the technology comes down. It's becoming very digital and that's in large part because customers just want it, but also in large part because of the demographic of who's renting. Gen X, we're not the best customers. There's a very few of us rent self-storage.

[00:19:31] You are millennial, I think. 30% of your generation already does or expects to as part of your way of life. So you need to be catering to that crowd anyway. You would prefer, and I saw you raise your hand, you would prefer to do everything on your cell phone and including access that if you had the opportunity. So there's that. When we're done with the facility, save because we're buying existing, save for the access. It's all being done on your cell phone. That's the value we're bringing.

[00:19:59] Like I said, it's mostly invisible to the customer. That's not really where the value is coming from. It's the management. Taking an old mom and pop run facility and we're bringing it into the 21st century. I want to say this in case there's a mom and pop run owner out there listening. I'm not trying to beat them up. It sounds like I am. It sounds like I'm saying, oh, these idiots don't know what they're doing. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we're taking it often places. They're just not comfortable or don't feel like it because they're older. They're typically retiring, right? That's why we're buying it.

[00:20:29] But they're always walking away from the settlement table with anywhere from one to five million dollars. So they did something right. Absolutely. I always say it sounds like I'm beating them up, but I'm not. They were the pioneers. They were, you know, way ahead of their time when most people probably told them they were crazy and they're walking away with a couple million bucks to enjoy retirement. Yeah. Question. And I'm assuming this is the case. But, you know, one beautiful thing that I've heard about, you know, self-storage and I'm

[00:20:57] the victim of this is once once it's moved in, it's it's pretty much there because we're just too lazy to move the stuff out. Right. So when you when you come in and you see these rents that are 15 to 20 percent below market, I'm curious when you take over management and you do this this rent increase, what is the typical rate of people that that vacate after this? I mean, do you do you see them just concede and just start paying the new the new

[00:21:27] rental rate or do you see a lot of people kind of exodus and then you have to retenant the property? A great, great, intuitive question. There are stats on this. So in normal times and I say normal times because the last year and a half was was a little more abnormal because the real estate market was down. So our occupancies dipped. If you did that, it was probably a mistake in the last year and a half, but in normal times. So like now the next facility we buy, which we just closed on last week.

[00:21:56] By the way, I'm not raising your rate. Let's use real numbers. 10 by 10 is 100 bucks a month. And I'm buying the facility where you're a customer and you're paying 80. That's 20 percent below, right? I'm not raising you to $100 next month. I'm probably going to take you up to 88 bucks. Got it. Or 588. We'll get you to 100 in the next two years. You'll get there. But by the way, that won't be what we call the street rate, the move in rate. The move in rate might be 110 two years from now.

[00:22:26] It might take us two and a half years to get you to 110 from 80. So we call that boiling the frog slowly. Got it. That said, if I do raise you 10 percent to 88 bucks in your first year, we'll see about 3 percent leave, which is fine. Because if we're in a market that is pretty full, you know, and you move out, you say, screw these new owners, you know, call us names, whatever.

[00:22:53] You're moving out at 80 bucks and I'm moving somebody in at 100 or 105 or whatever the street rate is that the algorithms tell us, you know, we should pay or we should charge. It's one of those door hits you type of things. Yeah. So for the if using simple math, if there's 100 units and you're all at 80 and three of you move out, you and two others move out, I'm down 240 bucks a month, but I'm up eight bucks on 97 units. Yeah.

[00:23:23] Do that math. Plus, I get to move in three new people at 100 bucks. Yeah. It's a no brainer. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting to me because, yeah, I've always wondered that because, you know, again, in the retail space, you bump rent up. A lot of times people have a complete fit, you know, but with your space and our rents are obviously in the thousands, tens of thousands a lot of the time.

[00:23:47] So from going from 80 to 100 bucks, just me as a consumer, I'd be like, fine, an extra 20 bucks. That's that's worth it to not have me going. We're all different. That's different. That's enough to set to send some people to pack up. It's interesting. And others won't. I don't recommend a 20 percent increase one year. But you started to say something. I thought you were going somewhere else, but I do want to touch on it for this reason because it's related. But it's a little bit of the Planet Fitness model, if you're familiar with that. Right. Yeah.

[00:24:16] It's it's a we just want to subscribe people. Yeah. Planet Fitness. You ever try to cancel a gym membership? Oh, yeah. You have to go in there and do the whole thing. Go in. Go in. They shame you. Yeah. They offer you other packages. That's it. That's if you took the time to go in. What you really did before that, probably several times through the course of a year or two years, however long it's been, is you're saying, well, God, you're let's say your spouse is here. You're still paying 30 bucks a month for Planet Fitness. I know. I got to get back to going to the gym.

[00:24:45] You always need to get back to going to the gym until you finally say enough. Right. Then you go in and then it's hard to cancel storage. We're not shaming you. But if you think about it, you've got to. So you just paid the bill 80 bucks. Right. Or the bill. We just raised it to 88 bucks. And your wife's on you. We're not even what we don't know what's in that unit. Whatever. When's a good time to move out? You just paid it. So you're good for the month.

[00:25:14] Now you're looking at three weekends. Right. Which of those three weekends is the right weekend to go move out? Plus, do you need to rent a truck? And then what are you doing with the stuff? Are you bringing it home? Where's it going? Exactly. So and then there's, you know, I don't know about you. I have three kids. There's never a good weekend for me to move out of storage. I had to move out of storage. Right. But then even if there was, I have to decide where this thing is going. It's going to cost me. Then it's like, ah, we'll do it next month. So do you see a little bit of the Planet Fitness effect in storage?

[00:25:43] Because there's never a good time. Yeah. There's a lot of pluses with that model for sure. So I'm curious how many people, like, have you ever had, not to stay on this specific subject, but I am curious, like, have you ever raised prices and then people just stop paying altogether? And then you have to evict them? Oh, yeah. Does that happen quite a bit? Or they could just stop paying. It doesn't have to be because of raised prices. I mean, people run into situations where they stop paying. Yeah.

[00:26:10] This is one of the advantages that intrigued me about storage. And I'm very familiar. I've been a landlord and we buy residential liens. So I'm very familiar with the ejectment laws and foreclosure laws and what's going on in most states. In storage, I'm going to say it's across the board the same in every state. I could be wrong. We don't own everywhere. But I'm pretty sure it's the same in most states. It's literally 15 days and you're late, 45 and you're out.

[00:26:40] And that's when we auction your stuff off. If we're efficient at what we're doing, we're auctioning your stuff off. And I know where you're going with that smile. So it is not like if you think Storage Wars is real, I always flip this house. Yeah. Right. If you can flip a house for 12 grand, then yes, Storage Wars is real. It's an interesting show to watch. But they're combining stuff into one unit to get an auction going. That's not how it's done.

[00:27:10] Yeah. We auction the unit. It's all done online. People bid online. It is typically worthless stuff. Well, I was going to say to you, you want to just get the stuff out of there because you want to just get new revenue coming through the unit. 100%. It's not a revenue event for us. We might make a couple bucks on it. Yeah. Look, they haven't paid for...

[00:27:31] If you're on top of your management, they only haven't paid for a month, but they might not have paid for two months if your manager hasn't gotten around to auctioning. So what are you out? You're out $200. Call it $300. Depends on what the monthly rate is. You're not recovering that from the auction. What you're getting is it freed up to lease out again, to rent out again to somebody who's going to be a long-term customer. Yeah. One thing that's related to that, too, that I wanted to ask, and then, again, we can move on.

[00:28:00] But on this, when you're talking about the technology component and you can do everything through the app, and I actually just went through this and I thought it was brilliant at a facility here because it was so nice. In retail, we call it a frictionless experience. Oh, yeah. It's very smooth. And whether you like it or not, you don't have to interact with people, which is nice sometimes. But my question is, how do you guys qualify people through that type of process?

[00:28:29] Do you run a credit check or is it just like, hey, we just roll the dice and just hope they pay? Or how does that work with? I suppose you could do a credit check. No, we just. Yeah, roll with it. Yeah. And what do you say the success rate is on your overall process with that? I think it's very high across the board, but we have had examples where it was not good.

[00:28:55] So we have a facility in Bowling Green next to a, I forget exactly what kind of shelter it is, but it's more of a transient place. And at the time, we were running a move-in special of like $10 move-in first month or something, $50, whatever it was. It was, I don't remember the exact number, but it was very affordable to move in, kind of like PlanetVest and we want to get you in because you're going to be sticky.

[00:29:21] And that is pretty much true across the board, except for this situation where they were moving in for $10 or $50, whatever it was, and then not paying. So now we're, now we created work for ourselves. Yep. You can't discriminate either. But if someone wants to pay with a debit card, you should probably watch that one to see like, or even, what's the, I can't think of the name of the card, but.

[00:29:50] BBT or something like that. Something, yeah. You could probably guess it's not going to be a long-term paying customer. Do you guys. You don't have to rent it to people, but you can't discriminate. Yeah. Do you. But for the most part across the board, we're not doing credit checks. Yeah. Do you give discounts for like auto payment? Payment. Have you seen success with that or no? When you pay, when you rent on your phone, that's the only option. Yeah, it is. The whole industry is moving that way. Well, and I don't blame them. It's efficient. You know. We don't give a discount.

[00:30:20] We've looked at it. What I have seen is people charge more if you pay by check or cash to process it. Yeah. We do take checks. We don't charge more though. Yeah. Interesting. So moving on to number two. So you're acquiring mom and pop facilities, adding value through that path. What else are you focused on? The second thing we do that we're focused on is consulting slash wholesaling. So there's so many deals out there that we have coming through our pipeline that are good deals.

[00:30:50] We can't buy them all, even if we wanted to. But, you know, people said, well, you're cherry picking the good ones. Yes, we are. But we're only doing that because we are and we aren't. We're cherry picking the deals that will work with our capital stack. So I can tell everyone listening, if it's a deal that works with our capital stack, you're not going to see it. And what I mean by that is we have investors that want to see double digit returns. Correct.

[00:31:17] So if a deal works where we can make a lot of money, our investors can make the return they expect, we're going to buy that deal. So everything checks out, checks all our boxes. We're buying that deal. You won't see it. That's only a small percentage of the deals we see, though. A lot of the deals are great deals, but they don't work with our capital stack because we have to pay these double digit returns. But they would work maybe for you on your own, especially if you're using like an SBA loan where you can get 90% financing. Yeah. Right.

[00:31:47] Now those deals pencil all day long for, you know, the husband and wife or it doesn't have to be husband. So anyone writing their own check, anyone who wants to get in this business without investors, there's tons of deals out there. And so we help people get into those deals. That's where we're consulting on those deals. One thing I'd really like to dive into, and this is something that I'd like to hear from everybody, but, you know, you mentioned your pipeline being so full. How are you filling your pipeline? How are you finding deals?

[00:32:15] What has given you the most success with procuring deals and negotiating successfully with even the mom and pops? You know, like talk a little bit about that. Yeah. The pipelines of deals are, you know, you have your brokers, you got wholesalers, but they're going out to massive lists. So we're not finding needles in the haystack out of those lists. Those, we have bought them because they can work for us.

[00:32:42] You know, if we're in a market and we want to add a facility to one we already own because we can manage it with one manager, you know, running two different properties that are a couple miles apart. Yeah. Then that works from a wholesaler or a broker. Or we have a lot of newer people trying to get into the business. A lot of the brokerage deals, like I said, won't work for us, but they'll work for you. So where we find most of our deals, we've acquired now 19 self-sourced deals in the last five, six years.

[00:33:12] Is they're off market. So we're actually uncovering them. So we've got a team of VAs that are making calls to mostly in the Southeast, little Midwest and Southeast. That's just, there's a reason for it. We want to be where the population growth is going. You might say Midwest, really? Yeah. Manufacturing is coming back to the Midwest and that's actually expected to boom. Like Ohio, tons of little cities. They're all expected to grow. Southeast for sure.

[00:33:42] Southwest for sure. We don't market there because we're mostly East Coast based and it's just a little harder to see a deal in Texas than it is to go see a deal in North Carolina. Sure. Nothing wrong with the Southwest. If I was based outside of LA, I'd be focused on the Southwest. It's just, that's where we're market. Yeah. We can only do so much. That said, we go to where the deals are. We own one in New York. Actually two now. Sorry. We just closed the one last week, both in New York and one in Minnesota.

[00:34:11] Nice. Go to deals at a boat and RV facility. Nice. I'm curious on the VA component, right? Talk to us about that. I'm like super. Do you just give them a criteria or like a geographical area and you say, hey, just call on every single storage unit in this geographic area and then you give them parameters and then they connect to you? Or how does that process work? Yeah, sure. So exactly that. We have lists of facilities.

[00:34:41] I mean, you can buy these lists and in per state. So we have the list that we want to buy. We scrub it. So we kick out all the public, Extra Space, CubeSmart. There's a bunch of other names we kick out that I'm not going to bore your audience with that are industry known, but you wouldn't know them. Basically, we get it down to a list that is potential seller, right? We don't know if they are, but they're not named public or Extra Space or CubeSmart or somebody else. And then there's a minimum size.

[00:35:11] So we're not looking for anything that's under, let's say, 5,000 square feet. And by the way, that's another area. We don't really buy 5,000 to 20,000 square foot facilities because we probably can't make them pencil for our investors and for us unless there's an expansion component. So if we're – like we have bought them – we bought one 9,000 square feet and added 20. We bought one that's 20,000 square feet and we'll add another 10 plus some parking soon.

[00:35:39] But that – we only bought that because we can make it bigger. Anything kind of 20,000 to 5,000, that's just right for our clients. So we've scrubbed that list for that. And then we have trained, I guess is a better way to say it, our VAs, how to have a conversation with sellers. If they can – if there is a seller that is – says, yeah, I'm ready to talk to Joe or Jack or Tim, you know, some of my partners.

[00:36:04] Right now, then there's like a fire alarm that, you know, boom, the phone's blowing up. Hey, it's a live one on the phone. You know, I won't leave this podcast to take a call, but I'd leave most other people. Wouldn't blame you, man. Wouldn't blame you. Yeah, hold on. I get to call. It doesn't always happen that way that they're ready to talk to somebody else. So it's a more of a message. Hey, Clayton, who owns King Self Storage, it says he's interested in selling and we'll take your call.

[00:36:32] Or if you travel to him, he'll meet with you. He doesn't do business over the phone. Whatever. So then we'll give a call. We'll ask some questions. We'll make sure it's a facility that, you know, is going to work for us. We'll get a couple details out of the owner. It's a little bit of a – look, they don't know you. So you're starting to develop relationship and trust and rapport. So you're not like, you know, first question isn't, you know, what's your NOI?

[00:36:56] It's, you know, how long have you – you're trying to – you've got to finesse your way into asking the important questions that will help you decide. Should I go visit this guy? Can I get on a plane and go down to North Carolina to see this facility or not? Or, you know, you always want to ask where are you in price? And based on a couple pieces of information that they can give me, I can guess if we're close or not. And then, you know, you just feel it off from there.

[00:37:21] But at the end of the day, it's a people, human, person-to-person relationship business. Even though you don't know them, very few deals have we gotten done where the parties don't like each other. Yeah. And when I teach it at Scott Myers Academy, I tell people this all the time from a marketing perspective and trying to find deals is you got to be a human being, whether you're on the phone or in person. Put yourself in the other shoes. You didn't ask for me to call and you didn't ask me for me to walk on your lot.

[00:37:53] But if you walk on like – it's really sales, right? Because you're – I'm trying to sell you to sell to me. Correct. Right? Exactly what it is. It is sales. And it's a weird kind of sale, but it's sales. And you didn't ask for this. So if I come at you with some sleazy sales type of pitch or blunt type of – how's that going to go? Right? So you have to develop the rapport.

[00:38:20] And, you know, we've been in it long enough now that the next deal I close, we're under contract and we close, you know, in like six weeks or whatever. That's been going on for two years. Maybe over two years. I don't even remember. Yeah. We've been cultivating that relationship for a long time. We touch base from time to time. And, you know, those things are starting to come back to us now. But I only tell you that to demonstrate how it's really a personable human-to-human interaction. Yeah.

[00:38:47] It's real estate at the end of the day, but it's a business, right? And that's – a lot of times it's their baby. Yeah. And they have to feel like you're about to take custody of their baby and care for it. Yeah. So that's how we approach it. So you source most of your deals through brokers or through – No, through the VAs, through off-market, through the VAs. And that's the challenge is trying to get the VAs to be personable too because they're not me.

[00:39:11] See, that's why I asked the question because that's where I would be worried is like if I was a storage owner and I got a call and I was like, well, you're not even the guy. You know what I mean? I mean, that's why I was like how much training goes – because it's interesting to me, right? All of us could benefit from having more exposure and more calls to more property owners or tenants or whatever. It's just how do you train someone to sound good enough, you know, to where – Like you. Yeah, exactly. To where you can kind of get to that next step.

[00:39:40] So that's why, you know, I have another contact that I know that does this similar type of setup. And he said that he's seen a lot of success with it as well. So it must just be – it must come down to the training of that VA and making sure that they're having the right conversation and the right dialogue and asking the right questions to get the owner at least not, you know, clicking and hanging up immediately but, you know, comfortable enough to have a call with you.

[00:40:07] Well, you know, and I'm not in the business of pitching VA companies, but I will say generally that's become its own business. So when you think VA – and even one of our first VAs was, you know, typically thinking – and this person was – you know, they're in the Philippines and they're English is good, but it's not great. Not a lot of success with that, especially when you're calling old men predominantly in the south, right? So you can imagine if the Philippines – it's just – she's a perfectly lovely woman, but like there's just this, you know.

[00:40:36] So there's actually companies that have – some of them are Egyptian-based, some of them are U.S.-based, but, you know, and the rates on what you have to pay will vary, but they're getting trained not just in real estate, but really getting trained on how to talk on the phone and how to sell over the phone. So there's companies out there that do a really nice job, at least on that front end. And then we try to put our spin on it for them too.

[00:41:00] Yeah. Do you just find them on Upwork or Fiverr or they're – just Google? I mean, any specific – You know, we just switched recently. I used to run acquisitions. I don't run it as closely anymore. I still oversee it. A company called FuelPoint, and I can't – I don't know where we found them, to be honest with you. There's another company called Maven Success. That one's interesting because that's like – they have everything.

[00:41:22] I mean, they've got CFAs in Egypt that are American-trained education-wise. They'll cost you like $36,000 a year. Yeah, I was going to ask. A $250,000 employee for $36,000. Yeah. Do you pay them by lead? Is that how that works? No. We pay them – we do bonus them by deal. Got it. So that's our bonus structure is, you know, you get a deal, we'll throw them another.

[00:41:48] They're like – Juvie, who was in the Philippines, just as an example, I don't know how much she made. We paid a company, but I think we bonus her like $2,500, and I think that was maybe 50% of her annual salary. Wow. Okay. Huh. Interesting. Yeah, we bonus them. I think they're paid by the service, which is so many hours, which has to do with phone calls and stuff. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:42:12] I feel like that's important because that's an innovative way to source deals, and a lot of people struggle with getting that deal pipeline full. You know, so that's why I wanted to kind of dig in there. One thing I wanted to chat with you about is as it relates to this specific point is partners, because you mentioned, you know, your partners and your investors. Talk to us a little bit about how that's structured. How are you guys structuring, you know, partnerships and investors? And again, you know, speak to us a little bit like, hey, I'm the guy that is trying to exit the bar scene, right?

[00:42:42] How do I get investors to, you know, be comfortable with me? And is that a good path to take? How do you start in that way? Yeah, great question. So the first thing I tell everybody who comes to the academy, and because I teach a couple of things, but one of them is the marketing class. So like how to find deals, how to present yourself, how to raise money, all that stuff. Start telling everybody. When I actually tell less people now that I'm in self-storage, and the reason is, like, you go play golf with maybe three guys you've never played with before. What do you do?

[00:43:12] What do you do? I'm in self-storage. Now you're like the hottest girl at the dance. Right. All they want to do is talk about self-storage to the point where I'm like, guys, I'm just trying to play golf here. I don't, you know. I illustrate that for you because it is a hot topic out there. Everyone wants to talk about invest in self-storage. So the first piece of advice I have is if you're a bartender or, you know, whatever, you're stuck in a nine to five and you're trying to tell people you're start listening to podcasts, start, you know, whatever.

[00:43:41] Start immersing yourself in it so you can sound like you know what you're talking about. But start telling everybody you're in self-storage or you're buying self-storage or you're looking for self-storage because the sooner you do that, the more likely six months from now, you'll be known as the self-storage person in your circle, however small or big it is. Right. So just start telling people you're in self-storage. That's one way.

[00:44:05] The other way is to get, you know, like I said, there's podcasts, there's academies, there's information galore out there on the internet. We live in the information age. Start immersing yourself in it. You are, it's not too late. We are still on the front end of this curve and long-term self-storage. First of all, we're building multifamily smaller unit sizes. So there's less space for, so, and generations like yours and the one younger than you are fully expect to use self-storage. Like they all do.

[00:44:35] You guys are 30%. The generation after you is like 50% expect to use storage. It's just becoming a way of life. It's like, you know, you didn't, but I lived in a world without cell phones, like a healthy amount of my life, like the first 20 years. Right. I can't even imagine going back to the world without them. We live in a world with self-storage and it's not going the other way. And on top of that, you have exterior forces that are, that are forcing this industry to grow e-commerce being one of them.

[00:45:05] Right. We are ordering everything online now. It's coming in same day, next day. That's created an entire cottage industry of flex warehouse space and last mile warehousing. Right. Because we need it now, not a week from now. And that's putting downward pressure on self-storage just in general. But also you're going to see them start starting to use it. And that's why we're building, probably getting ahead of myself with that. That's a niche we're moving into. But yeah, the population growth rate, we're undersupplied in housing already.

[00:45:33] And I don't know how many people came across the southern border the last four years, but our population grew unnaturally anyway on top of our normal natural growth rate. So that's pressure on housing. The more housing we have, the more storage we need. They go hand in glove. So it's not too late. The regret I have is not souring sooner. If it interests you, start learning, start immersing yourself, start telling people you're in it and start doing it. Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. What about the third?

[00:46:02] What else are you focusing on? What's the final one? The niche. Pro storage. We bought two years ago, we bought a facility in Wilmington, North Carolina that was not like all the other facilities we owned at the time. And the reason I say that is, you know, the two bedroom apartment of self-storage is the 10 by 10, right? That's the most common unit size. It's 100 square feet. You have an eight-foot ceiling. All right. A little metal box. This facility we bought in Wilmington, North Carolina, our smallest unit size was 500 square feet.

[00:46:32] 545 square feet. Sorry. Our largest unit size is 950 square feet. The ceilings are 14 feet and the doors are not seven and a half feet tall like a regular self-storage door. They're 12 and a half feet tall. You can drive a truck into them, into your unit or boat or an RV. Yeah. Actually. And what we realized that this facility, we underwrote it like it was self-storage, all the same fundamentals. And we love the deal. And it was seller financed.

[00:47:01] And it was just an amazing deal if it was just traditionally self-storage. But it wasn't. It was this other thing. And we honestly really didn't know what we had. But it worked. So we bought it. And as we were buying it, sorry, in the due diligence period, I ended up having breakfast with a local guy. He's kind of been a mentor of mine who's owned 26 facilities at one point. He sold them all. And I said, Ed, his name's Ed. I said, Ed, you ever have contractors? Because this facility was 80% contractors.

[00:47:30] It was built by a plumber for himself and then his buddies. And then he just kept building. And I said, have you ever had contractors in your facilities? And he said, oh, yeah. They're, you know, he gave me all the ins and outs. They're great customers. They're sticky. They're harder on the facility because they go in and out more. How many times a year do you visit your facility? Probably six, maybe. Okay. You're above average. It's four is the average. Contractors twice a day, right?

[00:47:56] So that's the gate opening and closing a lot more often. Yeah. All right. You can increase the maintenance budget for the gate, right? You can plan for that. But he said, you know, they're really sticky. But they're great customers. You know, just make sure they don't work out of the unit. You don't want people in there, you know, running saws. And I wouldn't give them power because they'll use it, you know, electric in the unit. I said, oh, okay. You can manage all that. It's funny. We were paying the check and leaving.

[00:48:24] And he almost didn't drop the most important nugget of all on me. He said, so, you know, Joe, the only time I ever lost contractors was when they outgrew me. And I said, oh, okay. And he said, you know, they would go into like small flex warehouse, whatever they could find. The small flex warehouse out there. He goes, you know, you should look into that. I said, why is that? I said, well, you know what last mile warehouse is? And I said, at the time, I've heard of it, but I couldn't tell you what it is. I've heard the words.

[00:48:54] And I knew it was really e-commerce. But again, I didn't know anything about it. And he said, you should look into that. You know, I think they're getting forced out. I was talking to some guys recently. They're getting pushed out of their spaces and the rents are doubling. I said, what do you mean? I said, yeah, you know, e-commerce and it's all coming in and they're gobbling up all the last mile warehouse in the area. I said, you've seen those distribution facilities go up. I said, yeah. He goes, well, that's just where it comes in off the tractor trailers.

[00:49:21] Then what they do from there is they divvy it up and, you know, they might send this whatever product to this 20,000 square foot flex space warehouse, whatever, that already exists. They're not building new. It already exists in your local neighborhood.

[00:49:36] And they're pushing out the tenants of the existing tenants who a lot of times are contractors or businesses, you know, that have extra inventory or like picture a catering company, you know, that has a retail store, but then they have 5,000 square feet where they store the tables, chairs and linen and napkins and, you know, glasses, racks of glasses and whatever. So picture all that. They're getting pushed out. You know, the rents were going were maybe seven to 10 bucks, triple net a square foot. But now they're 14 to 20 bucks and they can't afford it.

[00:50:06] So I thought, oh, that's interesting. So we started looking into it. And sure enough, I went back to my ops team and I said, you know, the facility we just now at this point we closed on it. I said, I want you to raise rates. And well, first I went to my acquisition guy. I said, if I raise rates on these guys, where are they going? And so he looked as if we were looking for space. And he's like, there's three spaces in Wellington they could go to that are under 3,000 square feet. Because remember, we have called 1,000 to 500 square feet.

[00:50:36] He said, there's only three spots at the time in Wilmington that were under 3,000 square feet. And they're all 12 to 14 bucks, triple net. So that's, you know, more like 15 to 18 bucks annualized. You're correct. And we were seven bucks, eight bucks, 10 bucks, something like that. So I said, raise the rates. So long story short, I'll use one unit size. Our 1,000 square foot unit was paying 600 bucks a month when we bought it. The street rate on that is now 1,100.

[00:51:06] Wow. We've only owned it a year and a half. And there's no electricity. No, I mean, is there a common area like bathrooms? There's a bathroom. There's a common area bathroom in the facility. So it was that exercise. Then we started the research and realized, and now we've got all the stats on it. E-commerce is growing by leaps and bounds. It is gobbling up all the flux warehouse space everywhere you can imagine in your neighborhood, in my neighborhood.

[00:51:35] And by the way, you're not building 20,000, 30,000 square feet. Because if you could, that land is highest and best use is still residential. So they're gobbling up the existing facility. So what we've set out to do is take what we have in Wilmington and go copy and paste it. And we've looked at markets that mirror or are better than Wilmington in all the demographic stats we look at. Right? And then we look at what's the competition there. Is there a lot of flux warehouse space?

[00:52:04] If I'm a contractor, where am I going in this market? So we've identified a bunch of markets that we can build these in. We actually last week just closed on land in Greenville, South Carolina, to develop our first pro storage. By the way, we call it pro storage. Short for professional storage because contractor storage didn't feel right. And we've looked around the countries. We're not creating something brand new. You know, there's 40, 50, 60 of them around the country existing. Somebody else had this idea for contractors already.

[00:52:33] But they're called things like contractor storage, large format storage, big stuff storage, monster storage, small base storage, flex storage. There's all kinds of names. So we said, and by the way, our customer base for contractors, businesses, boats and RV owners, and some guys with some, you know, classic cars. And so we said, there's no catch-all name for us. So we just said, you know what? It's perfect. Let's call it professional storage. So we're calling it pro storage. And we have a brand name, store pro, you know, that we've trademarked everything.

[00:53:00] But the industry class that we're running with is pro storage. And I'll be on some conferences or be speaking at some conferences soon on it. And it's exciting. So that's the niche. That's kind of my future focus. What I'm... So what's the minimum unit size on something like that? So we're rolling out 500, 750,000 square foot units in this first iteration. We'll have a clubhouse bigger than we have in Wilmington.

[00:53:29] Wilmington, we just have a little room with a bathroom. This in Greenville, we're going to have a clubhouse where, you know, if you moved your business and you're an electrician, you know, father, son, team, whatever. You want to meet clients at the facility. You can meet them in our clubhouse. There's a bathroom there, you know, refreshments, whatever. And then as we...

[00:53:51] In different markets, as we continue to develop, I think we'll add things like flex space where you actually have an office there. You know, we'll have one building where everybody has offices. So maybe it'll be 1,500 square feet. You'll have 500, 600 square feet office. The rest will be, you know, flex space and storage space. And then, you know, there'll be a community bathroom. So it's going to evolve. And there's also... There's guys out there doing... They actually have masterminds already now for how to build flex space. You know, it's...

[00:54:20] Flex space is flex space. Yeah, yeah. It's like storage. It's metal buildings and divide them into 1,000 square foot units. But that's going to be... That's definitely part of our future. Mostly in part because of e-commerce. I don't know about you. I'd say 90% of what we buy in my family gets delivered. I mean, if it's not perishable, it pretty much gets delivered. Yeah. And that's not going away. I mean, we have the stats now. You know, Amazon's the largest. Walmart's the second biggest, I think.

[00:54:47] They already know if you can't deliver by next day, you're losing 25% of your sales. And that number is going up and it's about to go to same day. So pretty soon, there's a number that they're quantifying. And if you can't deliver same day, you're losing the sale to somebody who can. Yeah. What? And we're not talking... By the way, we're not talking toilet paper. Yeah. Great example. My son... I was driving home to school in the spring and he said to me in the car, Dad, I want to get a pull-up bar. He's into working out. I'm good for him.

[00:55:16] And I was like, no, not... Those things ruin door jams. You know, we're not happening. And he goes, no, Dad, this one, it's safe. It's just... I said, you know, the kid's going to be successful in life because he wore me down. I was like, fine, fine, just do it. So he ordered it on the way to school from his phone, Amazon. When I got home that night, he said, Dad, perfect. There's not a scratch on the wall. Nothing. It works. It's totally... I was like, what are you talking about? He goes, well, pull a bar.

[00:55:46] And I was like, you already have it? Yeah. And, you know, he made some... I was like, how did you... I mean, I asked the rhetorical question because I know the answer, but I was like, my... You know, your brain spits out. How do you? Your mouth talks, but, you know, fast on your brain. I was like, how do you already have that? And he makes some snide remark about how he's him, you know, whatever his kids are saying is. But think about that. This wasn't toilet paper. It wasn't shampoo. Yeah. Pull-up bar was within 30 minutes of our house that day waiting for someone to buy it. Yeah.

[00:56:15] Like, that's crazy. No, it's incredible. Yeah, it really is. A couple of things because I know we need to wrap up here, but I think there's meat in this. And I guess I'm curious, two things with the pro storage and also I'd like you to talk about a traditional storage complex as well. But what makes a great site for a pro storage? Are you locating these in like, typically in industrial areas where there would be flex space?

[00:56:40] Are you putting them more in a residential area where these contractors and rich guys with cars live? I mean, what makes a great site, like your new site that you just closed on, like what made you decide to buy that specific site? And then how big of a piece of land and how much space do you have to build in order to make it economically feasible to do a project like this? Yeah. Great questions. Just like traditional, what I call retail storage, regular storage.

[00:57:10] If you're selecting a site, you're looking at population trends, median household income, crime statistics, supply index of the area. What's my competition? How much storage is there? You know, supply index is total square feet divided by your population, right? So we've a national average number of, you know, eight to 10 square feet per person. You're good. That's your kind of equilibrium in a market with exceptions. We're looking at those same things in pro storage.

[00:57:37] We're also looking at what we found in Wilmington is our proximity to businesses and supply houses. Now, interestingly enough, it's supply houses for contractors. Okay. Interestingly enough, in Wilmington, we're actually in a business park. That is not ideal in our opinion. It works, but I don't think that's where we want to be. I think we, like Greenville, it's not. It's in a more prominent location. But all the other boxes are checked from a demographic standpoint.

[00:58:07] Then we're also looking at what is, you know, in storage, you're looking at supply index. There's no supply index in pro storage. So we're kind of creating, but we're looking at what's interesting in Wilmington is that there's an actual market. So there's 300,000 square feet of pro storage. We have competitors there. I can't find another market that has that much. And we're only 50,000 of that 300. So we can actually create a supply index based on Wilmington. But in addition to that, we're looking at what are the options?

[00:58:36] Again, like I told you before, if you're a contractor or a small business and you need 1,000 square feet, what are your options? Yeah. You can find a couple options in most markets, but you can't find a lot. And are they drive-in accessible like we have? Does it have the same security? Is it kind of a class A facility or is it a very dumpy old garage style product? Which may work, but I have the superior product.

[00:59:03] So those are the types of things we're looking for when we're building them. You know, we're about to build our first one. So we'll let you know. I'd love to come back on in a year from now and tell you how we did it. Yeah, I'd love that. That's what we're looking for. And that's why we think we'll be successful. Now, how many square feet? How big? That's a value engineering number. We're building 90,000 square feet. Our amenities are, you know, we'll have close circuit TV in your unit if you want. We're short on time, so I won't go into why.

[00:59:31] But we'll have security, lighting, you know, climate control options, stuff like that. In Wilmington, it's as bare bones as it gets. So it's a little bit different. We're, Wilmington's like a class C product. We're building a class A product. How big and how much and how many. So Greenville. Oh, the lot size. That depends on the size, shape of the lot. So how much of it is usable, right? You know, we're building 90,000 square feet on a little over six acres. But also because we can do an underground retention tank.

[00:59:59] So a little bit on the municipality and what their requirements are and setbacks and water retention, stuff like that. I would say six to 10 acres if you want to build 90,000 square feet. We have a second site in Agarbor Township, New Jersey. That's closer to nine acres. That's going to be still around roughly 9,000 square feet. So, and believe me, we're maximizing both parcels. We're just able to get more on less in Greenville because it's a more favorable jurisdiction to build on than Agarbor Township, New Jersey. But that's kind of a range for you. Yeah, no, I appreciate you touching on that.

[01:00:30] So, and then to kind of finish it off, because, you know, obviously this has been a very interesting conversation. I've certainly learned a lot. I know the audience has. But talk to us a little bit about your, you know, coaching program and what that looks like from an educational standpoint if, you know, some listener out there, again, is intrigued by this and wants to learn more and engage with you. Yeah. We don't have a coaching program. I do teach at an academy that does offer one.

[01:00:57] If you're interested in that, you can connect with me. You know, I guess I'll give out my information now. Joe at bellroseam.com. And I can point you there. So that's Joe at bellrose, B-E-L-R-O-S-E. A as in asset, M as in management.com. Shoot me an email. I'll connect you with those folks if that's the track you want to go.

[01:01:16] If you're someone who's more of a self-starter, maybe you own real estate already, you don't think you need an entire mentorship program, you just want to get into a deal, also email me. And we can set up a, we call it a discovery call. So it's just a consultative discovery call about who you are, what you've done, what you want to do, what your ambitions are. You know, we'll have to get into how much capital, how much equity you have, because that'll determine the type of deal we can look for for you to put you in.

[01:01:44] You know, geography, how are you going to manage it? And some of that, you don't need to have those answers. These are the questions that we'll ask, and then we'll explain to you why we're asking them. And, you know, so you'll get an education through the process because we have to, to be able to adequately, you know, help you. And if you're interested, find a deal that's going to be successful for you. So that's, I would say that's how that process goes. It's very, doesn't cost anything. We're here to help. We love to give back. We love to, like I said, I teach at the Academy.

[01:02:12] I mean, I, I love this business. I wish I found it sooner. I'm having a lot of fun doing it, running this company and growing the different verticals. And I'm super excited about it. So if we can, I'd love to hear from you. Yeah, no, I can tell in your, in your, your voice so that you're excited about it and passionate about it. So, well, great, man. Yeah, it's been fantastic. Again, got a tremendous amount of value out of here. We will put your contact information in the show notes. Hope some people reach out to you that you can assist in the self-storage space. We'd love to.

[01:02:42] Again, thanks so much for being here today. Appreciate it. Leighton, what a great time. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me on this episode of the Commercial Real Estate Podcast. I hope you found today's conversation with our guests both insightful and inspiring. If you have any questions or comments or would like to connect with me or our guest,

[01:03:08] you can find all the relevant information and links in the show notes. I encourage you to reach out, share your thoughts, and continue the dialogue. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast to stay updated with our latest episodes and to explore more fascinating stories from the world of commercial real estate. If you've been enjoying the CRE Project Podcast, I'd greatly appreciate it if you can take a moment and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us grow and improve.

[01:03:36] Before we part ways, remember this. In the dynamic world of commercial real estate, every experience is an opportunity to learn and grow. So keep pursuing your passions, stay curious, and continue your journey. Thanks for being a part of our podcast community. I'll be back soon with captivating stories, expert insights, and valuable knowledge to empower your path in the realm of commercial real estate. Until next time, always keep in mind that the world of commercial real estate is filled with endless possibilities.

[01:04:06] Keep building, keep investing, and keep dreaming big.